By way of introduction, Michael Murphy received his B.A. in philosophy from Holy Cross College and is doctoral degree from east Texas State University in Commerce, Texas. He lived for ten years in rural Vermont, serving as a clinician and director of a community health center in North Adams, Massachusetts. He is a licensed psychologist and is certified as forensic psychologist. He has worked with men’s groups for ten years and his work has been included in an anthology of the best of the award-winning Family Therapy Networker magazine and in the best-selling book Chicken Soup for the Soul.

Joe:
Your book focuses on the relationship between men and their sons. Is there a incident that triggered you desire to write this book?

Michael:
The primary event that stimulated me to write the book was the overwhelming power of encountering the absolute unconditional acceptance and warmth of my infant children, with whose care I was intimately involved. Their smell, their voices, their completely uncalculated behaviors were an extremely disarming and dis-armoring experience, much like falling in love for the first time all over again. I think many men first learn to have a relationship through caring for their small children and are irrevocably changed thereafter, and have much more to offer in all areas of their lives.

Joe:
What influences have books like Robert Bly's "Iron John" and others have had in your evolution as a man and a father?

Michael:
Some years ago I wrote a newspaper column in defense of Robert Bly, sent the column to him and he wrote me a brief note describing his confusion at the extreme hostility his writings emphasizing male responsibility seemed to evoke in some women and men. He seemed hurt and mystified.

It seemed to me that some women are terrified that they are losing their privileged relationship with their children and thus may find themselves alone. Many males have had the experience of being in love with their mothers and their is no reason to suppose that the experience is not pleasurable to women as well. Some emasculated males line up behind the women because they too are frightened of being alone and cannot separate from their mothers. Robert Bly has sought to motivate men to discover their strength within their own masculinity, a challenge which is uniquely unpopular at present and which can only be accomplished if men are willing an able to be themselves with their children.

Joe:
You mentioned that you have three sons and no daughters. In what fundamental way do you feel this is a different relationship and where would one look for guidance in this sort of relationship?

Michael:
The absence of men from so many families is the reason that women, so much stronger than men in the work-a-daddy stage of cultural development, are now the losing depth and wisdom that have historically made them so interesting to men. It becomes harder and harder for men to find simple comfort with women, because fewer and fewer women have positive feelings toward men.

Women lack positive feelings toward men because, overwhelmingly, they are unfamiliar with them. They see the boy-child advertised on television - smiling, running, consuming and utterly thoughtless - and they know unconsciously that this is not a being with whom they can face the struggles of pain and death. They only know this if they have seen a man struggle daily in his goodness, a man, flawed and occasionally stupid, but fundamentally caring, and have known this man since infancy. The disappearance of this father-daughter co-educational process is contributing to the disappearance of masculinity. The question is - does anyone really care?

Joe:
Thanks you, Michael for your insights. We're going to move onto an excerpt from your book, "Popsicle Fish" which you have graciously allowed us to reprint here on the website entitled "Big Boys Do Cry" which sums up much of what you said in the interview. We are always looking for feedback from our readers, so please don't be shy!

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Thanks - - Sue & Joe

"Wild Tulips"
Raising Parents in a Complex World
by Beth Bruno
hosted by Joe Spataro
Beth Bruno is the author of Wild Tulips, which is a collection of entertaining tales about parenting. She has always been "fascinated by people - their motives, emotions, what makes them tick." As a school psychologist, her philosophy is not to solve problems for people, but rather "to help people discover their inner resources and create ways to help themselves." In this interview with Beth, she discusses how living life is akin to gardening; what lessons her book can teach homeschoolers; a little bit about Beth's daughter Nikki; her approach to dealing with school districts; and an essay on "special" education that focuses on bringing out the strengths in our children. She is available for your questions and we hope to have a lively discussion.